Here it is if you want to see it, but just be aware that Clippers physician Dr. Tony Daly said, “It’s probably the most serious injury you can have to the knee.” Shaun Livingston tore his ACL, PCL, MCL, and his lateral meniscus. He also dislocated his knee cap. I’m getting sick just thinking about all of this.
Livingston was the 4th pick in the 2004 Draft. He is up for an extension offer this offseason (which he obviously won’t get (he has another year after this one, then he’d be a restricted free agent)). Although this will extremely hinder his development, from a Clippers’ standpoint, this could work out money wise. I know that is a ridiculous thing to say because he will probably be out until the All-Star break NEXT YEAR, but it’s realistic. Livingston could come as a discount during the summer of 2008 because he will have proven only that he has injury problems. The Clippers have valued him so highly that he could have asked for a max deal by that time (if he had properly developed).
The Clippers now must decide which direction they want to go. They never pulled the trigger for Vince Carter or Allen Iverson or whoever else was offered to them because they refused to trade Livingston. Now you could have never known this was going to happen, but YOU KNEW he was fragile. He missed significant time in every one of his seasons and, as a Clippers half-season ticket holder myself, you see him miss games with pathetic injuries all the time. I know he had tremendous potential, being a 6′7″ long and lanky point guard who can attack the rim, but you knew his issues, you knew he wasn’t developing at a spectacular rate. The Clippers set themselves up to be a decent team for a long time with Elton Brand- but they seemed to never want to take that extra step. It’s a business and I know it’s about making money, but taking risks is what you need to do to reap bigger rewards (both for money and championships). Many blame Clippers’ owner Donald Sterling (who once sued a woman who claimed he sexually harassed her and asked her to start an escort service for him), but I think he has actually been a good owner. He claims he always would pay if a player deserved it, and he has, with Elton Brand and Corey Maggette. I blame his General Manager and Coaches. Elgin Baylor has made some of the worst draft picks in history and decisions by Sterling to trade or not resign guys like Michael Olowokandi, Andre Miller, Darius Miles, Loy Vaught, Maurice Taylor, Brent Barry, Lorenzen Wright, and Rodney Rogers all seemed to have been good moves, no matter what Clipper fans thought at the time. Admittedly, he should have gotten more in return for these guys, but that is where I blame the GM who knew what kind of player his owner would only resign.
So now the Clippers have Chris Kaman, basically, for forever, Elton Brand with a player option after next season, Cuttino Mobley and Tim Thomas until the 2009-2010 season and Corey Maggette with a player option after next year, which he will definitely not opt to do if Mike Dunleavy is still there. There seems to be no present with this team, as Chris Kaman has been wildly inconsistent, and with the uncertainty with Livingston, no future. Elton Brand needs help and all of these shoot first players (especially Kaman who once he touches it, you aren’t getting it back) are not helping. This team should be built around Brand and Maggette, but it will never be since the Coach and Owner differ greatly on their opinions of Maggette (who once did a flip in the dunk contest- I was there). With Maggette’s athleticism, ability to create instant offense, and his underrated shot, he’s well worth building around (with the inside presence of Brand- like Manu and Duncan, you can slow it up or get out and run).
if that’s “doing a flip in a dunk contest” then i want to see nate bang a hooker at half court, have a smoke, and run up to the hoop and casually dunk it. then i can say “nate robinson, who once had sex during his dunk attempt”
also, when you’re bashing baylor, you’re ignoring some good trades,and some good recent drafts. kaman, livingston, brand for chandler, miller for miles, cassell for jaric….all good deals and/or picks. you can’t blame injuries and bad deals (kaman) on baylor.
in terms of gm’s, there are much much worse ones then baylor. and if this was one year ago, you wouldn’t be writing this. the fault lays on the players and/or the coach. their team isn’t that much different. they’ve quit on dunleavy.
then why give that coach an extension when things were already very tense? Blame goes to the GM.
And I never said he’s the worst GM, just that he can’t draft. Kaman and Livingston have proven nothing yet.
for the record…..
my take. bad chemistry. guys have mailed it in. injuries have screwed things up, brand shouldn’t have played all summer long, and dunleavy shouldn’t have let his personal contract crap distract the team for so long. they are deep and talented. i think they just don’t want it as much as they did last year.
why don’t you post your name ‘anonymous’.
Should Lebron not have played this summer either?
so you blame the gm for livingston getting hurt. the kid clearly has talent. and in so far as the gm was involved (identifying talent to draft), he did his job. the injuries were not present during his high school days.
sterling signs off on deals and the coach extension you ass. you can’t blame the gm for that more then the owner. the owner hires the coach. the gm offers input.
if you want to evaluate what “kaman and livinston have proven”, you need to look at their worth versus the guys drafted around them in their respective drafts. when you do that, you’ll see that you’re being harsh on the kind of job baylor’s done.
i think you’re unclear on the responsibilities of coach vs gm vs owner when you’re laying blame. just my two cents…
as a cavs fans, i wish he hadn’t. i understand why he did, but i want the superstar playing for my favorite team to be playing his best ball for me.
that last post sounds really… well… not straight.
As far as Baylor, I’m saying he knew Livingston was prone to injuries when other teams inquired about him as far as trades. Trades that seem to have been real if he gave up this injury prone, unproven, talented player.
I blame Dunleavy most for this season, yes, but he didn’t sign this new deal until well into this year. Why do that if the owner loves a player the coach hates? I’ll blame Sterling for that, then, but Baylor for not trading the fragile Livingston.
baylor can’t make a trade independent of sterling…. do you not read any of what’s happened with maggette this year.
you’re right. why did STERLING sign dunleavy knowing he loves magette and dunleavy doesn’t? that seems like a bad move. so lets blame….hold on here….. let me find the one guy that is least at fault of the three….. yep, baylor.
GM’s don’t sign coaches you ass. Owners do. GM’s simply try to find guys that can work within their vision. But let’s be serious here. Sterling has always done what he’d decided was ok to do. He finally decided he’d spend some money in recent years, but before that it didn’t matter who the GM picked. He wasn’t gonna pay them. Now some of Sterling’s new found generosity with the cashflow is blowing up in his face cause players are lazy or don’t listen to their coach. And the blame is on the guy in between the real decision maker (sterling) and the coach who can’t get his team to play like one (dunleavy). hardly. he’s the least at fault for how this season is turning out.
lastly, you’re not a half season ticket holder. you’re a one sixth season ticket holder.
i can see you’re point on the trading livingston thing possibly being on baylor, but that’s only under the assumption sterling wanted iverson or carter. he could have nixed that deal too for all we know. he never said publically what he wanted to do.
So, could you easily assume that Elgin would have resigned Olowokandi (he did have a very good season in his contract year) and made other dumb moves if it wasn’t for Sterling’s “cheapness”?
jesus…this is the point guard, shooting guard debate all over again.
let me just say this once more:
NEVER HAS THE GM DICTATED WHO GOT SIGNED OR LET GO FOR THE CLIPPERS.
YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU CAN BLAME BAYLOR FOR PERSONNEL DECISIONS REGARDING CONTRACTS OR TRADES.
This isn’t the knicks. this isn’t the cavs. this is the clippers. and with how this organization has been run over the years, Sterling has always done whatever he’s felt like regardless of the GM’s desires. And Baylor is willing to just roll with the punches to keep his job. If you’re gonna fault him for anything fault him for working for an owner who always think abotu his interests first before what would make the team the most competitive (lately he just seems to have finally gotten it that competitive can translate to profitable). The thing you can pin primarily on the gm of the los angeles clippers be it baylor or anyone else who may serve under sterling’s rein in the future is the players they draft.
in the past, 9 times out of 10 sterling’s decisions were motivated by money…. making it or saving it. it hasn’t been until the last three to four years that he’s come to terms with the fact that you may be able to make even more money by fielding a competitive team.
you’re analyzing this team like you’d analzye the isaiah/nolan dynamic. and the clippers aren’t the knicks. anyone whose witnessed this squad realizes no gm would get the kind of latitude thomas gets if he worked for sterling.
You don’t think Elgin has any power at all? Or if he can sway Sterling in a certain way? Basically, he’s pathetic then and should be fired if all that is true. Sterling should be the GM then if Baylor is just a figurehead. The blame needs to be spread out, not pushed off Baylor, even if he has little power.
i am spreading the blame. the coach, the players, the owner first and foremost, and then baylor last of thoes groups. if you think blame is equal amongst all parties, i’ll guess we’ll agree to disagree. the clippers gm job is a figurehead. and in my world, figureheads don’t shoulder the majority of the blame if the owner is the one who really has to sign off on every decision.
taking the GM job for the clippers is like taking the raiders head coaching job. you know it’s a figurehead when you take it cause it’s one of 30 jobs like it. Elgin is simply a beloved la sports figure who was the perfect fit from the PR standpoint. as you’ve pointed out, he’s not a great gm, he’s not a terrible one. the blame does not need to be spread so liberally to him like you are trying to argue. since sterling has run the clippers (decades) they’ve accomplished nothing. he’s proven his desire to make money first and foremost and field a championship team second evidenced by the one thing that this team can count on… losing.
i think sterling has made tons of bad decisions, but recent good fortunes (last season’s record and some solid drafting by baylor) have lessened the criticisms. that and everyone loves an owner who’d basically sue a hooker (an exaggeration i realize)